There are 51 comments - Display All Comments
Gopher
Rochester, MN
Posted on 11/5/2009 at 9:07:48 AM
Here is what is amazing: Taxes can be raised to fund improvements in County government and in City government without going to the voters. School districts have to ask permission...so we hold our children hostage, so to speak. When voters are tired of a variety of tax increases they have no control over, they finally get a chance to say “NO!” and it is said to the schools.
BillChris
topher
Olmsted County, MN
Posted on 11/5/2009 at 10:19:18 AM
Well put, Gopher. In the long list of taxes I pay, I’d much rather take an increase in a local school levy tax instead of increased in rates of taxes at the level where waste is much more widespread.
Beehive
Rochester, MN
Posted on 11/5/2009 at 11:17:36 AM
Don’t worry voters. We’ll keep voting on this until we get it “right”. In this case NO doesn’t mean NO.
ElGuapo
GoingGalt, MN
Posted on 11/5/2009 at 12:15:14 PM
Hopefully, it won’t come to that, Beehive. Perhaps the school boards wouldn’t have to go to the voters to ask for perpetual increases if they took their jobs seriously and took the teachers unions to task.
Don’t be fooled. Teachers unions don’t represent the interests of “the children”, despite the recent hyperbole by their mouthpieces. The reason that the teachers unions supported the levy was because the alternative (negotiating away some of the golden benefits that teachers unions have) was unthinkable.
“When school children start paying union dues, that’s when I’ll start representing the interests of school children.“—Albert Shanker, longtime president of the American Federation of Teachers.Pensions. The dirty little secret that various school boards and teachers unions don’t want you to know about. If the willfully ignorant taxpayer only knew what sort of sweetheart deals (early, FULL retirement, etc.) that has been negotiated with teacher unions for years…
Tenure. After three years, it is nearly impossible to fire an incompetent or burned out teacher.
Healthcare. When is the last time that the teachers unions had to do what the rest of us have had to do? COST SHARING.
If the taxpayers want more tax dollars going to the public indoctrination of their children, the first step is holding the school boards accountable. Quit giving the moon and the stars to the teachers unions and try actually NEGOTIATING for once.
len9807
mantorville, mn
Posted on 11/5/2009 at 12:19:48 PM
Here is what is amazing: Taxes can be raised to fund improvements in County government and in City government without going to the voters. School districts have to ask permission...so we hold our children hostage, so to speak. When voters are tired of a variety of tax increases they have no control over, they finally get a chance to say “NO!” and it is said to the schools.
--
Well said, and I think this is precisely what happened in Byron.
BillChris
topher
Olmsted County, MN
Posted on 11/5/2009 at 12:53:19 PM
ElGuapo, I feel much better now knowing how I’ve stuck it to THE MAN (or the teachers unions) while our elementary kids have over 30 classmates and the teachers can’t begin to keep up.
I, too, enjoy my talk radio, but there’s times that you can’t take them too seriously either.
ElGuapo
GoingGalt, MN
Posted on 11/5/2009 at 1:43:41 PM
BillChristopher:
If any child is suffering, it is not due to voter indifference, but school board malfeasance and teachers union lies.
The taxpayer wants accountability. We shall see if that happens during the next election cycle, or the school boards continue to make excuses for their incompetence.
bench rid
er
byron, mn
Posted on 11/5/2009 at 1:55:46 PM
Guapo, your comments are coming very close to resembling guano. The blame does not fall totally on the school board. A good share of it falls on the legislature and their continued lack of adequate funding for primary education. The school boards are merely working with the morsels that they are given, from St. Paul and the local taxpayers.
And specifically regarding the Byron School Board, I know most of them personally, I go to church with several of them and I know what they are made of. The current school board I feel operates with impeccable integrity in everything they do...period. The only real blemish on the board in recent years is the one who started spreading incorrect information around town prior to the referendum, and his actions ultimately cost him his seat on the board. I don’t know where you got the chip on your shoulder from, but when referring to the Byron School Board, I would appreciate that you know what you are talking about before you comment.
ElGuapo
GoingGalt, MN
Posted on 11/5/2009 at 2:05:25 PM
Bench rider:
I will not comment on the personal virtues of any school board member, Byron or elsewhere.
However, any time a politician or school board member comes to the taxpayer and says, “I can’t do it. I need more of your money”, they are saying, “I can‘t/won’t do my job”.
IF the school board decides that they will keep playing the game of asking for an ever increasing portion of the taxpayer paycheck, year after year, they should know that there is a limit. They might get it next year. Who knows? This year, they lay their failure at the feet of a former board member. He won’t be their excuse next year. They will have to find another. Maybe next year, “old people” will be the villain.
It is time for the school boards to take their jobs seriously and work to decrease costs (labor) instead of going to the taxpayer for yet another rescue.
bench rid
er
byron, mn
Posted on 11/5/2009 at 2:26:31 PM
Well, Guapo, your generalized comments about this article/issue are comments about the Byron School Board and all school boards in general. In the case of Byron they are not true. These folks are doing there job, they are taking it seriously and they have been doing a spectacular job. Furthermore, they will continue to do their job well when it comes to deciding what cuts will need to be made. They needed to approach the taxpayers directly due to the continued cutting of funding from St. Paul.
It is easy to see from your comments that your are making radical assumptions about something you know nothing about. It is presumable that you have never been a sitting member of a school board, in fact I highly doubt you have ever attended a school board meeting. That being said, you know not of what you speak of and your comments hold no merit whatsoever.
ElGuapo
GoingGalt, MN
Posted on 11/5/2009 at 3:21:44 PM
Sis boom bah! Sis boom bah! Byron, Byron, RAH! RAH! RAH!
Put down the Kool-Aid. Wash your nose.
There is NO money from St. Paul. The money that YOU say comes from St. Paul comes from the Minnesota taxpayer. The State generates NO wealth. It redistributes it from those who earn it to those who beg for it.
You are correct in assuming that I have never been a member of a school board. Mea culpa. My views wouldn’t make me very electable. However, I am exquisitely informed as to what negotiations go on between the teachers union and the school board.
Ask Chris Douglas, perhaps. One of your school principals recently retired. Perhaps he can weave a tale of whoa about how this persons “retirement parachute” was substandard.
I wait breathlessly.
bench rid
er
byron, mn
Posted on 11/5/2009 at 3:37:27 PM
Well, the taxpayer money is doled out through St. Paul, Guapo. So we are both right on that one. The legislature decides where and how much of it goes to school districts. Hopefully, you are esquisitley informed of the news that education funding has been chopped by the legislature year after year. Their decisions have placed Byron sixth from the bottom of all the school districts in Minnesota, which roughly number just short of 500 districts.
Since you only know a portion of what a school board does (union negotiations) I would suggest that you stop criticizing the operational budget process which you seem to know nothing about. Otherwise, keep waiting breathlessly, I’ll read about it in the obits.
ElGuapo
GoingGalt, MN
Posted on 11/5/2009 at 3:48:41 PM
{{{grabs heart. falls over dead}}}
All of a sudden, the budget (of which school boards have utter and complete control over) are beyond critique.
Odd.
What do YOU know about the negotiations in between the ISD 531 and the Byron school board?
Are YOU a member of the BEA? Tell me what you know about, of the Byron ISD/BEA pension agreement.
bench rid
er
byron, mn
Posted on 11/5/2009 at 3:58:02 PM
I don’t work for Byron ISD/BEA so I don’t have knowledge of that. I am not being critical of that. You were being critical of everything school boards do based on whatever it is you are exquisitely informed about, which seems from your posts to be only part of the picture. I was merely defending the current board members against your rant that just because they are on the board, they do nothing ethical. I take offense to that being you don’t know the members. I have know dreams of changing your poisoned mind about school boards. You have to live with that. Just don’t drag down boards you know nothing about.
bench rid
er
byron, mn
ElGuapo
GoingGalt, MN
Posted on 11/5/2009 at 4:05:14 PM
I drag down no school boards. They do a bang up job themselves.
I don’t care if Mother Theresa is on the Byron school board. If she is, she couldn’t find her (!) with both hands.
The fact remains that the current ISD 531 school board is incapable of balancing a budget without coming to the taxpayer with a plea for help. They are incompetent, by definition.
I don’t recall in the PB (or anywhere else) that the BEA and the school board of ISD 531 were ever at odds over the the wondrous benefits pension package afforded to to the union membership.
?
BillChris
topher
Olmsted County, MN
Posted on 11/5/2009 at 4:42:04 PM
What are the details of this “Double Secret” pension benefit agreement? I’d be interested in reading through this information.
I haven’t met any millionaire public school teachers thus far in my life and in an environment where a professional sports figure or a Hollywood entertainer can make as much as an entire school district’s employees combined I’m just not conjuring up a vision that has me shaking my fist. That said, I like having the information available to review.
bench rid
er
byron, mn
Posted on 11/5/2009 at 4:50:04 PM
One final correction to your untrusting mind, then I am done. The school board has a balanced budget. They are not operating under statutory debt. The referendum was to maintain current programs and operations at their current levels. The referendum failed, therefore, the board will have to cut some programs, staffing, increase class sizes, etc. to maintain their balanced budget. Their competence is not in question in my mind, and I do take issue with the fact that you are condemning them without knowing the whole story. You are calling them call them incompetent merely because they called for a referendum.
I quote one of your previous posts...“The fact remains that the current ISD 531 school board is incapable of balancing a budget without coming to the taxpayer with a plea for help. They are incompetent, by definition.”
That claim is unjustified.
Ripper
SE, MN
Posted on 11/5/2009 at 5:21:51 PM
So, its all the unions fault now? They negotiate a contract with the school board, that probably falls in line with all teachers, and this is unjust? There are a few that are thinking that they are still stuck in the 50’s and 60’s. Too bad technology has passed them by.
pittteach
adsf, mn
Posted on 11/5/2009 at 5:28:08 PM
El guapo, many of your comments are insulting, but the one I must address regards health insurance. At the school in which I teach we have a very high deductible, and premiums are 800 per month on a family policy. R-P is over 1000, and most of the SE MN rural schools are in the same boat. Houston schools no longer offer insurance. Districts are essentially just small businesses having to negotiate with Blue Cross, having only 30-40 contracts. If you know anyone in small business, as I do, you know how expensive that is.
Thanks for your time, I’ll be napping on my big pile of secret pension money now :)
ElGuapo
GoingGalt, MN
Posted on 11/5/2009 at 5:43:27 PM
Thanks, pittteach.
Anything you would like to tell the taxpayers about your pensions?
And $800/month? BUGGER! MY policy (family) is $17,000/year. (That is 1400+ per month for the the government educated!)
Am I still insulting you? Let me fill you in on this: I (nor my wife) don’t have a wondrous golden parachute for our retirement once we reach “TEACHERS RETIREMENT AGE”.
Tell us about that.
pittteach
adsf, mn
Posted on 11/5/2009 at 6:48:40 PM
Not sure what you mean, but I expect to work about 35 years teaching, then retire, having loved almost every minute of it. I pay about 200 per month to the pension fund, as does my school. The government has no other involvement than that 200 match. Talk radio may have you seeing ghosts, but that’s basically the whole story.
My pension when done, is a reason that I chose government work and all the plusses and minuses of it. I made much more money before teaching (ran a restaurant) but that’s not why (nor anyone I know) I teach.
I’ll refrain from any further comment, gotta get back to work.
MommaBear
Byron, MN
Posted on 11/5/2009 at 7:03:15 PM
pittteach, if it is 800 a month for your health insurance, why not go out and buy a policy like we do from BC&BS;? For our family of 6 it is just about 600 a month with a high deductable. You could save yourself a couple hundred bucks and the taxpayers won’t have to pay for it either. .
pittteach
adsf, mn
Posted on 11/5/2009 at 7:08:11 PM
Hi MommaB,
I don’t take the insurance from my school, thank goodness my wife works in the private sector. Thanks for the concern, I can’t speak for others.
And as long as I posted again, Byron is an excellent school district. Hope the vote doesn’t divide you guys, everything I’ve known from that district has been outstanding.
ElGuapo
GoingGalt, MN
Posted on 11/5/2009 at 8:40:09 PM
So… no one wants to defend the wondrous “golden parachute” pensions that teachers unions have negotiated with school boards?
Why don’t the local school districts have any money for the basics of student education? Why do the school districts go begging to the voters year after year?
Why did Byron #531 (and the BEA) go begging to the voters for more money, when the money “FOR THE CHILDREN” was right there, ready to be negotiated into public coffers?
Why are teachers going off into the sunset with full retirement, early in the prime of their earning years, when children must go begging?
Hmm?
I thought the BEA mouthpieces said it was about the children?
bench rid
er
byron, mn
Posted on 11/5/2009 at 9:13:57 PM
El Guano...you don’t listen to the facts and don’t believe the truth, so we ain’t wasting anymore time trying to explain it to you. Enjoy GuanoWorld.
ElGuapo
GoingGalt, MN
Posted on 11/5/2009 at 9:18:21 PM
Guano. Didn’t see that coming. {snore}
I am all about facts, bench rider. I don’t march lockstep with various “truths”. That’s what Pelosi said.
ElGuapo
GoingGalt, MN
Posted on 11/5/2009 at 9:20:30 PM
“My pension when done, is a reason that I chose government work...“
There you have it.
levelhead
ed
Byron, MN
Posted on 11/5/2009 at 9:30:05 PM
HandsomeOne (ElGuapo): Please stop commenting about teacher pension plans. Your understand of teacher pension plans is wildly inaccurate.
All Minnesota teachers (except those in the Minneapolis district I believe) have their retirement benefits administered by the Minnesota Teachers Retirement Association. There are no secret pension plans negotiated at the individual school district level.
Also, I think the “Golden Parachute” pension that you keep referring is probably your skewed understanding of the “Rule of 90”. This grants full pension benefits to teachers who’s age and years of service add up to 90. It also only applies to teachers hired prior to June 30, 1989. In other words, none of the teachers hired in the last 20 year qualify for this early retirement option.
Here’s the TRA website, but I have serious doubts you will go to the trouble of doing any research to clarifying your misinformation: www.tra.state.mn.us
levelhead
ed
Byron, MN
Posted on 11/5/2009 at 9:33:45 PM
Also, ElGuap, I you truly are paying $1700 per month for a family health care plan, you need to do some comparison shopping. You’re being taken to the cleaners.
Atilla
Rochester, Mn
Posted on 11/5/2009 at 9:36:25 PM
The rate 0bomba’s going, the union won’t be able to find enough tax payers to fund their teachers benefits.
The bank is going to break...and soon. They need some BIG TAX HIKES to pay for all these bennies the union promises.
Like retiring at age 55, or 30 yrs of service with a pension EQUIVALENT to their quitting salary AND yearly automatic cost of living raises!!....nice.
Over the last 30-40 years the democrat arm - NEA - aka teacher’s union has been paying off the teachers with promises of big fat juicy pensions.
Guess what? Soon we’ve got to start paying for this stupidity.
The numbers are so bad, drastic measures will have to be taken. Projections show that in 10 -15 years we will be paying more for the retired teachers than for the teachers that work.
NEA/arm of democrat’s solution… .raise taxes like crazy, destroy the quality of current education system, or renege on the retired teachers pension.
All of these are political poison.
levelhead
ed
Byron, MN
Posted on 11/5/2009 at 9:37:37 PM
Correction: $1400 per month. Gotta keep the facts straight.
newameric
a
Rochester, MN
Posted on 11/6/2009 at 4:34:26 AM
Unions, Retirement programs, healthcare - lots of people talking about things they have zero knowledge of. Yep, its the trained talk radio crowd again.
Ok, talk radio crowd - aren’t you supply and demanders? You know, the “free market” crowd?
Complain all you want about the monetary riches of teaching (cue laughter), but the “free market” facts are that we can’t find enough decent teachers at the current salary offered, pension, retirement, “golden parachutes” (laughter again), and mirade of other imagined perks that teachers get to maintain highly qualified professionals.
That’s the end of it. Complain all you want. I know you probably hate teachers and thus their unions because you got picked on in school or something, but there is no arguement for the facts I just displayed. Don’t bring salary, healthcare, pensions etc. None of it matters - as inaccurate as you displayed it. All that matters is the fact that you get what you pay for. Period.
newameric
a
Rochester, MN
Posted on 11/6/2009 at 5:31:03 AM
Talk radio folks, what do you think about military benefits? Pensions? Healthcare? Retirement age? etc. How do they compare to lowly teachers?
Of course if you cut military benefits then you wouldn’t have soldiers to fight your illegal wars. Oh wait a minute, we still have Mexicans and thirdworlders to take their place with less benies. Is that the plan? A U.S. mercenary military is already in the works.
Atilla
Rochester, Mn
Posted on 11/6/2009 at 7:42:56 AM
Geez...newamerica -
“the “free market” facts are that we can’t find enough decent teachers at the current salary offered..”
You have that BACKWARDS, it’s precisely BECAUSE of the union and NOT because of the “free market.”
Teachers negotiate their salaries collectively through the union which fights any performance based pay.
Unlike the corporate world, where there is a free market for talent that rewards high performers, the worst teachers are paid as much as the best teachers with the same number of years in the field. As long as unions and collective negotiations exist, teachers will be viewed as a common, undifferentiated commodity. Thus, the best teachers will be underpaid and the worst will be overpaid, which of course benefits only the weakest links in the field.
Unlike “free market” professions, unions have resisted efforts to ensure that effective teachers are rewarded.
It all comes down to the union baby. Union control.
And WHY is the NEA arm of the democrat party recommending its members read - and promote the reading of - two books by Saul Alinsky; Rules for Radicals and Reveille for Radicals?
Look at the The National Education Association website:
http://www.nea.org/tools/17231.htm
Atilla
Rochester, Mn
Posted on 11/6/2009 at 7:53:53 AM
Good lord, Why is the National Education Association (teachers union)interested in Alinsky tactics of “Community Organizing?”
They seek so called “social change” through THUG tactics?
It appears that the teachers union is no more than a mob wishing to engage in violence.
Union power baby....Chicago politics gone national. They’re happily hooked up with the community organizer in chief 0bomba.
FrankWHaw
thorne
Rochester, MN
Posted on 11/6/2009 at 8:40:49 AM
Yeah—Too bad the only “thuggery” happnin’ around here is of the neoconic rhetorical kind.
So Mr. Union Hater—I followed that link to to the NEA homepage. Big Deal (Not) that someone who actually read that harmless, community-organizing book decided to recc it other educators.
But—if, as Atilla assumes—it’s So Important to the NEA “comintern” for indoctrinating our innocent children & turning them into little Obamas—you’d think one could also find a convenient link from that brief review to a diabolical “Alinsky Lesson Plan...”
Uh-Uh, baby; unless I didn’t have the secret [al-Qaeda-issued] password, it ain’t there. But I could share with everyone some keen plans for teaching kids all about “Pumpkin & Popcorn Science!”
And did our OCD Conspiracy Maven take the time to also note All the other recommended titles one can find links to there??
I was thinking He should buy the “Thin Book of Naming Elephants;” since—after Six Thousand Eight Hundred & Eighty Eight posts—it’s obviously time he changed his tiresome secret identity.
Oh—and by the way to those who think teachers are “overpaid“[sic]—I also note on PayScale.com that the median annual salary in America for all k-12 educators is Less than $45K.
One wonders how they can afford to send their own kids to college, much less keep-up payments on the jags & mercedes limos.
Atilla
Rochester, Mn
Posted on 11/6/2009 at 11:13:23 AM
FrankWHawthorne, If you think teachers are underpaid TALK TO THE FREAKIN UNION.
In last years dist 535 budget, page 23 of said budget, it states that the average teacher’s salary and benefits in this district is $67.5k per year.
And that includes a 3 month summer break.
BillChris
topher
Olmsted County, MN
Posted on 11/6/2009 at 11:25:22 AM
Atilla, I’d say its a two month summer break - not three. They’re usually not out of it til mid June and back into it in mid August and are assuredly doing a fair amount of planning in those “free” months. I don’t have avg numbers for Byron, but it looked like a teacher’s salary w/ 15 years of experience is roughly 50K. I can’t say that this is either over paid or under paid. It seems fairly appropriate - maybe a bit light - for an occupation that requires continuous improvement.
We are all welcome to look up teacher’s salaries online. They are public employees and are held up to more scrutiny than most of us are.
Atilla
Rochester, Mn
Posted on 11/6/2009 at 12:31:38 PM
Yeah, one would think that but for some reason I can’t find the 2009-2010 dist 535 budget.
It’s almost like they’re trying to hide something.....
artista
rochester, mn
Posted on 11/6/2009 at 12:32:00 PM
If you notice, the teachers are too busy teaching our kids to respond to all the criticisms of their salaries, pensions and time off. Good teachers are key to a productive, healthy society. They deserve our respect as well as a decent salary and benefits. The union haters need to give it a rest.
MommaBear
Byron, MN
Posted on 11/6/2009 at 12:40:25 PM
There are some really good teachers in Byron and equally there are some bad ones, but, that is not what this is really all about.
BillChris
topher
Olmsted County, MN
Posted on 11/6/2009 at 12:45:15 PM
Atilla, can you try this site?
http://extra.twincities.com/car/schlsalaries/default.aspx
That’s where I found my info.
len9807
mantorville, mn
Posted on 11/6/2009 at 12:45:41 PM
Posted on 11/5/2009 at 9:18:21 PM
Guano. Didn’t see that coming. {snore}
I am all about facts, bench rider. I don’t march lockstep with various “truths”. That’s what Pelosi said.
--
Turn off Glenn Beck for starters. Your generalizations and ASSumptions are extreme..even for an opinion board.
MommaBear
Byron, MN
Posted on 11/6/2009 at 12:49:44 PM
I don’t want my last statement to be taken the wrong way. I didn’t mean on a teacher to teacher base. I think the majority of the teachers in Byron do a great job. There are handful that I don’t think are really there for the students as much as their own egos or to be a part of a High School sports program. But beyond all that we need to move forward and those in Byron I hope on both sides will come together to get through all this.
Ripper
SE, MN
Posted on 11/6/2009 at 2:46:56 PM
ElGuapo, you shouldn’t lie about your health plan. You said your wife works at mayo as a nurse. I got news for you. If your paying that much, your not as smart as you think you are. Why don’t you just come out and tell the truth?
Atilla
Rochester, Mn
Posted on 11/6/2009 at 5:16:35 PM
Bill, go right to the district 535 homepage.
Then select
district -> departments -> business services.
Over on the left select budget.
You can look at the last 5 years.
2009-2010 is not up.
Atilla
Rochester, Mn
Posted on 11/6/2009 at 5:41:01 PM
Look at page 19 of the district 535 budget for the school year 2007-2008.
Two years ago.
Page 19, says:
“Average Teacher’s Salary & Benefits $64,930”
edved
Minneapolis, MN
Posted on 11/6/2009 at 8:20:27 PM
El Guapo-
Why dont YOU run for school board and fix these problems? Its great that you call out the school board and accuse Chris Douglas of weaving tales.
The fact is these people aren’t on the board or personal gain, they are actually trying their best to improve the community.
You may not agree with them, but they arent trying to screw anyone over and i believe their intentions are good.
Its really classy that you call them out and try to convince people that they are evil. Maybe you can take a break from posting 600+ times on the PB website, get a life and try to contribute to the community as well.
Duke
Rochester, MN
Posted on 11/7/2009 at 12:44:55 AM
ElGuapo: Teacher Unions are causing global warming, daylight savings to be moved to teach less during daylight and spreading H1N1 to get more days off and not work but collect a check!!! You got’em pegged...nice job!
They should call you Sherlock ElGuapo! (starring Johnny Depp as you!)
newameric
a
Rochester, MN
Posted on 11/7/2009 at 7:42:01 AM
Injection of common sense among many distortions:
Schools with teacher’s unions pay their teacher’s more than private schools = Unions increase teacher pay = encourages more good teachers to stay on the job.
Second distortion by the same guy that complained that Unions don’t equal higher salaries. Distortion: teachers salary and benies = $65,000 dollars/year. This is the old tactic used most recently when reporting that UAW workers made $72 dollars an hour - when in fact they made in cash less than $30 and far less than $20/hour for new employees. When talking about pay and salaries NOBODY ever discusses benefits/hour. They use this tactic to make you think they are talking about actual cash payment/hour.
Just about any professional and most non-professional salaried jobs come with benefits. With the deceitful tactic of reporting salary and benies/hour, somebody making $15 dollars/hour with rather “normal” benefits could be reported as making more than $50/hour. Figures can lie and liars can figure.
Now which one is it Atilla - do unions work for more pay for the employees or do they actually get less? So far, you have claimed both to fit whatever scattershot logic you would like to apply to a particular arguement.
The “free market” and the Constitution dictates that workers have the right to organize.

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