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irishman
Rochester, Mn
Posted on 11/6/2009 at 11:38:09 AM
If I was a conspiracy believer, you know the type, jfk, moonlanding, 9/11 etc, I would be tempted to put credence to the intended destruction of the US by crushing debt which will bankrupt our country and place in us in the category of a debtor/beggar nation before obama leaves office in 3 years.
When all of this insanity is added up I am less convinced this is not intentional.
mgse
Rochester, MN
Posted on 11/6/2009 at 1:38:10 PM
Let me fix the headline…
“Politicians spend too much, accomplish too little”
Much better.
Mrs_C
Rochester, MN
Posted on 11/6/2009 at 2:31:42 PM
The GOP health Care plan that John Kline supports does little to expand coverage, make the health Insurance Companies accountable for their abuses, nor gives the Uninsured access to affordable coverage, and encourages those with pre-existing conditions into high risk pools with even higher premiums. Not to mention, no help in buying Insurance.
For those who can’t currently afford insurance, here’s what the Republicans are saying to you: tough. That’s right. No tax credits to help. No subsidies. No regulations to reduce costs. Nothing but: “You are on your own.”
The House Republicans think the solution is a health care plan that gives MORE leeway and even bigger profits to the Insurance Companies. Is this a joke?? If it is, it’s a cruel one.
dimpleche
eks
Rochester, MN
Posted on 11/6/2009 at 3:04:11 PM
“I will continue listening to my constituents, who do not want government bureaucrats to come between patients and their doctors.” - Kline
So Mr. Kline is listening to only those constituents who prefer a for-profit insurance company between them and their doctor? Not good.
Dano
PineIsland, MN
Posted on 11/6/2009 at 4:12:37 PM
Mrs. C.,
Please enlighten me since nobody who supports this bill seems to be able to answer this simple question. What is affordable health care? What makes it affordable? Seems to me, what is affordable for one person probably will not be affordable to another. Unless, of course, it is free, and only the working class pays? How is this affordable to someone who doesn’t work at all? How do they pay in? With our money that we already give them?
If you ask me the free market is fair. Having a pre existing condition and paying more or not getting insurance at all is the same as having a bad driving record and trying to get insurance. Why are we not passing a bill so everyone is insured for their automobile? I pay more because other people cant afford it or do not have it. Why is that any different than health care? I pay more because some either chose to not pay for a plan, or cannot pay for a plan. Either way we all pay for others.
The difference is now the burden will always be on the taxpayer. The way it is set up now, the hospital can atleast “try” and get their money out of the patient.
Birddog
rochester, mn
Posted on 11/6/2009 at 4:23:19 PM
“So Mr. Kline is listening to only those constituents who prefer a for-profit insurance company between them and their doctor? Not good.”
At least he is not taking his orders from Pelosi and her ilk.
FrankWHaw
thorne
Rochester, MN
Posted on 11/6/2009 at 5:01:44 PM
By stating that “the number one problem plaguing our health care system is the skyrocketing cost of coverage… And we must expand access to affordable coverage for Americans struggling to gain access to care,” Rep. Kline joins other national Republicans in attempting to sound moderate and “pro-reform,” when in fact the historic record shows they’ve Always been All about No Change & No Reform (i.e. pro-Status-Quo).
Remember, these are the pols whose philosophical forebears fought Social Security & Medicare (Etc.) tooth-&-nail.
If we go their route (again), projections show that Americans will be spending approx. 40% more on their healthcare, and upwards of 66 million of us won’t even reap the benefit of this “choice” route.
I can guarantee you that the compassionate John Klines of this world will not be waiting for them with “Please Help” penny- jar proceeds at the ER entrances to our nation’s hospitals.
FrankWHaw
thorne
Rochester, MN
Posted on 11/6/2009 at 5:04:57 PM
Correction/Addition to last post—The following is in reference to the year 2019:
If we go their route (again), projections show that Americans will be spending approx. 40% more on their healthcare, and upwards of 66 million of us won’t even reap the benefit of this “choice” route.
Source: Robt.Wood Johnson Foundation report.
Dano
PineIsland, MN
Posted on 11/6/2009 at 5:54:51 PM
I see those who support the bill STILL cannot answer my question....What is affordable health care? How can it be possibly affordable to everyone? Are some going to get it for free? I would assume that someone who supports this bill should be able to answer such a simple question.
R_Schauer
lakeville, mn
Posted on 11/6/2009 at 7:04:42 PM
John Kline and the Republicans with help from many ignorant dems have turned the US into a third world country. We have 5% or the world’s population and 25% of the world’s prisioners. Out of control unemployment, out of control Wall Street. No health care and what is there is the most expensive in the world. Education has totally failed with the US now coming in around 36th or 37th in the world. And what does John want to do? Cut taxes! How about this John, cut military spending? Cut spending to socialist our farmers and the socialist corporations that the republicans are so quick to aid. Yeah, trickle down didn’t work, boy scout. All one needs to do is look around or better yet...visit the local homeless shelter.
Atilla
Rochester, Mn
Posted on 11/6/2009 at 7:22:07 PM
On the contrary, I think 0bomba and the democrats are accomplishing A LOT!
All that “change” 0bama talked up....“I will fundamentally remake America” well, 0bomba’s doing it!!!
He’s remaking us into a socialist/communist nation.
- nationalizing the auto industry.
- nationalizing the banking industry.
-nationalizing the medical industry.
-he’s appointing unconstitutional czars, including a PAY czar.
Presidential czars and advisers have NO executive power at all, and the president has NO authority at all to create executive power out of whole cloth merely by naming some presidential czar.
Had 0bama ever attended a Constitutional law class, he might have already known this..........
More change is coming
- censorship
-repealing the second.
I really wish 0bama would stop already with the change and
WORK ON THE HOPE.
flightlin
e
Rochester, mn
Posted on 11/6/2009 at 7:23:54 PM
r_schauer—I will agree the education accomplishments of US students, are very poor compared with much of the rest of the world. GW tried with No Child Left Behind. Just ask the Dems to try and get the NEA to come on board with teachers pay, dependent on their classroom effectiveness. Any attempt to try and improve teacher’s performance is a non-starter item for the Dems.
Just one question? Is Socialist a verb or a noun to you?
mikel
Crystal, MN
Posted on 11/6/2009 at 7:33:43 PM
Frank & Mrs C.
Please explain to me how this bill is going to help somebody who doesn’t currently have health insurance now when it doesn’t go into effect until 2012! Does that sound like something that we want out of our representative.
Foreveryo
ung
Darfur, MN
Posted on 11/6/2009 at 11:33:40 PM
the Congressional Budget Office released its initial analysis of the health-care reform plan that Republican Minority Leader John Boehner offered as a substitute to the Democratic legislation. CBO begins with the baseline estimate that 17 percent of legal, non-elderly residents won’t have health-care insurance in 2010. In 2019, after 10 years of the Republican plan, CBO estimates that …17 percent of legal, non-elderly residents won’t have health-care insurance. The Republican alternative will have helped 3 million people secure coverage, which is barely keeping up with population growth. Compare that to the Democratic bill, which covers 36 million more people and cuts the uninsured population to 4 percent.
But maybe, you say, the Republican bill does a really good job cutting costs. According to CBO, the GOP’s alternative will shave $68 billion off the deficit in the next 10 years. The Democrats, CBO says, will slice $104 billion off the deficit.
The Democratic bill, in other words, covers 12 times as many people and saves $36 billion more than the Republican plan. And amazingly, the Democratic bill has already been through three committees and a merger process. It’s already been shown to interest groups and advocacy organizations and industry stakeholders. It’s already made its compromises with reality. It’s already been through the legislative sausage grinder. And yet it saves more money and covers more people than the blank-slate alternative proposed by John Boehner and the House Republicans. The Democrats, constrained by reality, produced a far better plan than Boehner, who was constrained solely by his political imagination and legislative skill.
This is a major embarrassment for the Republicans
Mrs_C
Rochester, MN
Posted on 11/7/2009 at 1:34:42 AM
How does John Kline and the rest of the GOP opposed to Health Care Reform answer for the fact that the US ranks #1 in the world for the overall cost of Health Care, yet rank #37 for overall outcomes?
That, I would like to know.
Othelmo__
Rochester, MN
Posted on 11/7/2009 at 1:52:55 AM
You are wrong as usual, Mrs_C. The GOP opposes the Obama/Pelosi/Walz death care bill along with its mandated fines and jail time for those who do choose not to abdicate their freedom in favor of a totalitarian system.
R_Schauer
lakeville, mn
Posted on 11/7/2009 at 7:31:14 AM
Sorry about using socialist as a verb and a noun. What I meant to say above is “our socialist farmers.” Who by-the-way are usually corporate entities or pawns of such companies as Cargill, and ADM.
People, there is socialism in this country...get over it! But the socialization benefits of your taxes is currently going to large corporations. OK! Look at the bust on Wall St. and ask yourself how well that is going!
Health care is another issue...look who benefits from the current system. Do you or I benefit? Heck no! Insurance companies, pharmaceutical and medical device makers and not you or I are the big beneficiaries. Who, btw, pay John Kline to shill for them.
I was in Australia...had a medical problem, got it fixed and paid nothing! It was amazing...I kept asking where do I pay and they said you owe nothing! It was nothing big but, whoa...this is very cool. I got right in to see the Docs, too.
The republicans are using every scare tactic available to bully you into using this broken, expensive system that benefits their political donors. People our political system is the most corrupt, pay-to-play system in the world and you and I are the big losers.
Wake-up...we need some kind of health care option that benefits people like you and I not the insurance companies and other robber-barons that permeate our society.
And John Kline painting himself as a willing participant to bipartisianship...the best joke I’ve heard all year. John Kline is out for his big donors and here they are:
http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/summary.php?CID=N00004436
BillChris
topher
Olmsted County, MN
Posted on 11/7/2009 at 7:52:42 AM
I’m wondering where the state legislators are. If health care reform is this important, shouldn’t MN lawmakers be working in parallel on a plan unlike the ones that are struggling or have failed in places like MA, HA and ME?
Looks like Minnesotans already have a program that covers everyone. So why is anyone here even debating that we need to do this on the federal level?
http://www.dhs.state.mn.us/main/idcplg?IdcService=GET_DYNAMIC_CONVERSION&dDocName;=id_006255&RevisionSelectionMethod;=LatestReleased
Mrs_C
Rochester, MN
Posted on 11/7/2009 at 1:54:41 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE9VcGxRMFI
This little snippet concerning Michele Bachmann’s Tea Party gathering on Thursday should make John Kline and ALL TPers in Rochester about the country very PROUD to be a part of this movement.
easterner
Rochester, MN
Posted on 11/7/2009 at 2:12:17 PM
Dano said: “If you ask me the free market is fair. Having a pre existing condition and paying more or not getting insurance at all is the same as having a bad driving record and trying to get insurance.”
It isn’t the same at all, unless, of course, you are saying that all people with pre-existing conditions created those conditions. A friend has a congenital birth defect..... yes, that is just like having a bad driving record!
Birddog
rochester, mn
Posted on 11/7/2009 at 2:19:54 PM
I listened to your “snippet”
If the Franken type offensive talk makes you feel good then you should listen to it all day long. That type of talk does nothing to further your cause. What would further your cause would be to prove that the offensive sign was made and carried by someone from the Tea Party.
Mrs_C
Rochester, MN
Posted on 11/7/2009 at 2:39:04 PM
I concur with Malloy on this one when he was commenting on the Behavior of the event and the members of Congress who endorsed that behavior.
One TPer was photographed holding a sign with a Swastika in the O as in OBAMA LIES. Very smart.
Birddog
rochester, mn
Posted on 11/7/2009 at 2:44:19 PM
If filthy talk is your thing..so be it.
OnlyTheTr
uth
MN, MN
Posted on 11/7/2009 at 2:54:07 PM
Just like the dude that was carrying around a sign with a swastika during an indoor event. After the rally, he was outside passing out leaflets on how great the Dem’s Healthcare plan would be.
It’s an old trick.
FrankWHaw
thorne
Rochester, MN
Posted on 11/7/2009 at 3:51:00 PM
Just to clear-up a misconception re the “Deathcare Bill” charges.
While there was an anonymous amendment offered to the present bill before Congress which would authorize humane euthanization of pernicious Liars who peddle outrageous Lies about healthcare reform, the Fair-&-Balanced Democratic Party leadership removed same, arguing that letting these nefarious characters live with themselves for the rest of their natural days would be worse punishment. :-]
As to the Tea-Party “Patriots“[sic]rally sign equating the Holocaust with “National Socialist Healthcare;” this is but further proof that these people have no sense of proportion or shame.
Gardoglee
Cottage Grove, MN
Posted on 11/9/2009 at 10:11:27 AM
There is something we should consider as we debate healthcare in the US. There are two parts to our healthcare system. One is clinical care, the doctors and hospitals and pharmacists and all the other people and organizations who actually provide healthcare services. This is the part of the system which actually has a lot going for it at this point. It is also the part from which all of the concessions and cost cutting are proposed in both the Democratic and Republican plans, the part from which the ridiculously low Medicare and Medicaid reimbrusement rates keep taking funds, and the part which we need to work really well for people to actually receive healthcare.
There is a second part of healthcare in the US, the healthcare financing system. This is made up primarily of two major groups, the private insurance companies and the public programs Medicare, Medicaid and various state programs like Minnesota Care. This is the part which the current healthcare legislation is really about. This is the part in which the US system differs most from other industiralized nations. We have a split payer system. The public part does not pay enough to doctors to actually cover the cost of providing care. The private part doesn’t really pay much more than the public part, but it does have several times the overhead expense of the public part, and many times more than the overhead of other industrialized countries.
This is the part where a critical measure of efficiency is what percentage of what is paid in (premiums) ends up being paid out for care (claims). In the US we have a private payer system in which industry analysis praises those companies which keep their “medical claim expense” as low as possible, which is literally the same as saying they spend more of their money coming in on overhead costs, and are rewarded for keeping overhead as high as possible.
The health insurance industry association (AHIP) estimate for overhead is 7%. Other estimates range as high as 35%. It is difficult to find hard numbers, but as an indicator the Blue Cross Blue Shield plans nationwide have reported an audited average of just over 14% each of the past two years. By comparison, the Medicaid program reports an audited 3%. No doubt some will dispute any and all of those numbers, but they are audited figures.
The bottom line is, if you put $100 into the Medicaid fund it pays $97 out to doctors. If you put $100 into BCBS, it pays out $85.64 to doctors. If you put $100 into some of the private companies they will happliy tell you that they pay out a bit less than $65 to doctors. So, if the objective here is to get the most healthcare for the least money, private insurers do not look too good.
Notably, the private insurers are the one group from which Representative Kline’s proposal asks no concessions at all. Not one penny.
If an objective is “afordable healthcare”, then one definition floating around is “no one should have to go bankrupt because they get sick, and no one should have to die because they cannot afford to go to the doctor.” There are a lot of people who will dispute that as an objective. Let’s be honest, there are a lot of people who really don’t care at all if some people die because they cannot afford to go to a doctor, or go bankrupt after they do. Dress it up with all sorts of free market jingoism, but it means the same thing. The logic goes something like, “Those people are sick because of something they chose to do, and they cannot afford a doctor because of something else they chose to do.” Fine, if that is the sort of country you want to live in, that is your choice. An ultimate expression of that philosophy seems to be the pirate coast of Somalia, also known as anarchy. Have a nice trip.

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