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gohan3213
21
minneapolis, mn
Posted on 10/23/2009 at 9:05:46 AM
People were there in fact to support the immigrant community.
There is no distinction between being against racism and shouting down those with a anti-immigrant message precisely because racism is inherently infused in the ideology of those who seek to criminalize those trying to make a better life for themselves here.
Even the language ‘illegal immigrant’ is a racist term used to dehumanize the immigrant population.
We talk about the issue as if its a policy problem, but the root causes of immigration are systemic. This is a HUMAN RIGHTS issue when immigrants are forced to leave their country because of the free trade agreement NAFTA which has decimated the Mexican local economy. Then folks come here and have to deal with a racist and xenophobic society.
This certainly is not a strictly political issue, its one about human dignity in which racism and the message of the nazis are intimately intertwined.
lnelson
Rochester, MN
Posted on 10/23/2009 at 9:15:21 AM
What?? Poor writing and slanted journalism? In the PB?! NEver!!! Please note my heavy sarcasm.
Why would anyone be surprised about the PB’s ridiculous coverage of a Neo-Nazi event? It was a disgusting display of “reporting,” even leaning towards being sympathetic for a group that does nothing but promote hate. It was disgusting that all this reporter could talk about was how the people there to oppose such outlandish hatred behaved poorly. If I had known about this demonstration, I’m sure I would feel compelled to do more than throw jell-o cups.
I am sick to death of the PB’s slanted journalism and poor reporters. It is a joke of a newspaper and it makes me grateful that the Star Tribune is readily available here.
jzee
rochester, MN
Posted on 10/23/2009 at 9:34:22 AM
“If I had known about this demonstration, I’m sure I would feel compelled to do more than throw jell-o cups.”
And you criticize the neos as being “hateful.”
Hmmmm… I guess it’s OK to threaten violence if your cause is just, eh?
Could there be a problem with that attitude? I guess tolerance only goes so far before it morphs into “justified” violence.
I guess a self righteous judgemental attitude is OK as long as yer the one judging. Could that, itself, be a big source of problems?
What gives some the right to preach tolerance, but act intolerant?
reader008
Chatfield, Mn
Posted on 10/23/2009 at 9:58:49 AM
The Neo-Nazis would be right at home with obama
FOX NEWS:White House loses bid to manipulate other news networks into isolating and excluding Fox News from interview with ‘pay czar’ Kenneth Feinberg, as GOP steps up criticism of administration’s hardball tactics
obabma would love to take away right to free speech. Then the truth about him would not get out!
aghast
jefferson, mn
Posted on 10/23/2009 at 10:46:39 AM
“The Neo-Nazis would be right at home with obama”
I’m sorry to be a blockhead, but I don’t get it! Please try again.
Timber
Rochester, mn
Posted on 10/23/2009 at 11:13:55 AM
reader008 is just an idiot that slams our president every chance he get’s. It’s going to be a long 7 more years for him.
jzee
rochester, MN
Posted on 10/23/2009 at 11:21:29 AM
I thought it was unpatriotic to criticize war time prezidents, and that people should just accept the system as is,particulalry since he was duly elected.And furthermore,if they don’t like the way it is, they should pack their bags, pronto.
At least that’s part of the stuff I was told when I dared say soemthing about Dear Leader Bush’s policies.
Now I’m afraid to criticize Obama for fear of being told to Love it or Leave it.
Birddog
rochester, mn
Posted on 10/23/2009 at 11:27:46 AM
“reader008 is just an idiot that slams our president every chance he get’s.”
Let’s see how long it takes the Editor to remove that one.
Olivander
20 minutes into the past, MN
Posted on 10/23/2009 at 11:45:21 AM
“Let’s see how long it takes the Editor to remove that one.”
No kidding. That possessive apostrophe is totally inappropriate!
lnelson
Rochester, MN
Posted on 10/23/2009 at 12:25:59 PM
Hey jzee, maybe you should read a little closer. Pretty sure I said I’d feel compelled, didn’t say I’d do worse.
Are you disagreeing with my statement that Neo-Nazis are hateful? I don’t think my statement is without its proof.
You’re right—I have absolutely no tolerance for people who want nothing more than to spread hate and ignorance. I understand we are all entitled to our freedom of speech—doesn’t mean I have to agree or accept what is said. But hey, if you wanna side with the Nazis, then you go right ahead. Go ahead and call me judgmental—when it comes to Nazis spreading their intolerance and hate, you’re right, I do judge them. And rightly so.
Are you so bitter because you were attacked by the dangerous and scary jell-o? Is that where this ridiculous argument stems from?
Spend your time defending more worthy causes than the plight of Nazis.
Birddog
rochester, mn
Posted on 10/23/2009 at 12:33:31 PM
“Are you so bitter because you were attacked by the dangerous and scary jell-o?”
If you are so smart let’s see you throw that “dangerous and scary jell-o” at a cop.
(I won’t be there to post your bail)
jzee
rochester, MN
Posted on 10/23/2009 at 12:45:14 PM
“Are you disagreeing with my statement that Neo-Nazis are hateful?”
Nope. I truly know nothing about them but what’s been taking place here the last day or so. So I can’t say if they are or not.
I’m at this point neither defending them nor criticizing them. I’m unimpressed by their dress, but they are making some good points. I am also favorably impressed by their discipline.
I’m trying to get beyond their image and label and am trying to assess their message on its merits and their behavior.
I hope I don’t sound too sappy or sanctimonious here, but why attack these guys? Even if they promote hate, weren’t we taught to combat it with the opposite?
We conquer darkness by lifting the blinds and turning on the lights.
I truly do not mean to preach, since I’m as big a sinner as any of the rest, so forgive me if I am sounding holier than thou, cuz I’m not. But I may come off that way since my ability to communicate is far from perfect, especially in a medium like this, which I find quite limiting.
I have to admit, though that I find the former yardbird and janitor (I say that without condescension) coming up with some pretty amazing stuff.
BTW I’m pro human, and not anti immigrant...(I’m married to one.) Illegal immigration is not a particularly hot button issue with me, either, but I do like to see people getting a fair shake. It goes both ways as long as the parties are acting honorably and respectably.
I object to people writing them off and worse, simply because they are labeled “Nazis.” We should all be tolerant enough to at least listen, especially when they conduct themselves with restraint, as these dudes appear to have been.
ElGuapo
GoingGalt, MN
Posted on 10/23/2009 at 4:51:50 PM
What is an anti-Nazi flag?
BTW, I am pro immigration. I am anti-illegal immigration.
Am I a Nazi? Is someone going to throw things at me?
jzee
rochester, MN
Posted on 10/23/2009 at 5:24:22 PM
Ahhh, one could conclude that you like to teach mellifluently…
You said, “Are you so bitter because you were attacked by the dangerous and scary jell-o? Is that where this ridiculous argument stems from?”
Why were you so quick to express yourself so apparently hatefully? Is expressing hatefulness reserved only for certain special anointed ones?
OTT sez I’m disgruntled. I already have my hands full being disgruntled, I can’t add bitterness to my workload quite yet. So, no, I’m not bitter. But thanks for your concern!
; )
BTW: the jello tossing in this instance could reasonably be considered a symbol of hate and aggression. You OK with that? Why is one hateful symbol Ok and another isn’t? Who determines its status? Please explain.
stevo
Rochester, MN
Posted on 10/23/2009 at 5:40:11 PM
I am not sure exactly what Norman meant when he wrote, “Who is to say that the demonstrators were not there to protest Nazism, ..., and the racism inherent in naming one group, in this case Mexicans, as the problem?”. I do sense that Norman is overstretching, in an attempt to deflect criticism to the author and editors of the P-B. Furthermore, I did not know that Mexicans actually consititued a race. Perhaps many Mexicans are of a common race, but I believe that Mexico is a nation.
ElGuapo
GoingGalt, MN
Posted on 10/23/2009 at 6:01:55 PM
Why throw Jello?
Why not throw stale urine? Why not the content of chamber pots? (A classic from our colonial days) Eggs were popular in my high school days!
Why not something more meaningful? Let us get your point across so that everyone knows how you REALLY feel.
Batteries are always in vogue in Phillie. Battery acid is all the rage in some parts of the world.
Throwing stuff at people is a sure sign of class…
jzee
rochester, MN
Posted on 10/23/2009 at 6:30:13 PM
I find it interesting that people who find it OK to throw stuff are so repulsed and incensed at the completely harmless display of a simple symbol printed on paper or cloth.
They attach all sorts of wild meaning to it, yet we unanointed ones are supposed to be favorably impressed with an overt display of aggression which probably every sentient form of animal recognizes as a threat.
I’ve noticed that just raising my hand to a strange dog will cause it to cower and slink off. If I want it to go away, I pretend I’m picking something up.
If I really want it to leave, I make sure it sees me grabbing a stone or stick. I don’t even have to throw it at them.
Even dogs understand.
What gives some permission to engage in threatening displays, while they condemn others for imagined or potential wrongs?
What’s wrong with someone cleaning up his own act before working on others, or encouraging such?
Othelmo__
Rochester, MN
Posted on 10/23/2009 at 10:32:04 PM
It’s not lazy, it’s intentional. Their passion to legalize illegal immigrants overrides journalistic integrity. It’s more important to equate opponents of illegal immigration to neo-Nazis than to be honest about the distinction.
aghast
jefferson, mn
Posted on 10/24/2009 at 5:32:48 AM
“Throwing stuff at people is a sure sign of class…”
And a superior intellect,higher morality and benevolent intentions as well.
newameric
a
Rochester, MN
Posted on 10/24/2009 at 5:35:15 AM
Mad at the PB because they recorded actual crime? Or because the made the correct assertion that the LaRaza crowd was “pro-immigration?” That’s ridiculous.
If there was anything to complain about in the reporting it would be the one-sided attack on the ideology of the National Socialist, while the racist ideology of the LaRaza criminal crowd was ignored.
Nazism, Neo-Nazis, National Socialists, or whatever you may want to call it is an ideology not a criminal gang. People are free to believe what they want. I care more about what people actually do rather than what they think. Nazi gangs pose no threat on my rights and liberties.
Criminal LaRaza and Latino supremacist gangs that are roving are streets do threaten all of our liberties. The Latin Kings and MS13 should not be tolerated - not because of their ideology but because of their crimes on society.
The National Socialist don’t assault and rob old people, they don’t paint graffitti all over town, they don’t peddle drugs, and etc. Frankly, I’d rather live next to a National Socialist than a LaRaza puke anyday.
aghast
jefferson, mn
Posted on 10/24/2009 at 5:43:24 AM
“I care more about what people actually do rather than what they think.”
Beautiful. I could not agree more.
It’s no business or concern of mine what people think as long as they do me or my fellows no harm.
I don’t care what they think either, if they attempt to intimidate or harm others. In that case I’ll assess their actions not what I believe their thoughts are.
TheKid
Rochester, MN
Posted on 10/24/2009 at 9:31:15 PM
jzee: What do you think when you see a picture of Hanoi Jane? Just curious.
jzee
rochester, MN
Posted on 10/25/2009 at 9:20:58 AM
Kid, you asked an absolutely wonderful question.
I truly like that.
When I was a kid, I loathed the thought of her. I thought she was a traitor, and utterly despicable.
Now that I’m an old, disgruntled, curmudgeon and have acquired some clues as to how things work, I get curious. Actually, I never give her a thought. The picture that comes to mind is that of the terrified little girl running naked after her village was napalmed by some war hero in a white helmet.
I’m going to research Fonda right now.
What do you think when you see a picture of the great war hero and songbird, John McCain, the mighty warrior who dropped bombs from jets onto innocent people who never could have been a threat to us?
What do you think when you see a picture of the loser lieutenant, Calley, the shake and bake officer and monster of My Lai, who shot a 3 year old child at close range when one of his men had the sense, grits and guts to disobey his order to do it?
What do you think when you see a picture of Pat Tillman, who died of 3 bullet wounds to the head at close range, and whose fratricide was covered up by none other than “Christmas Tree” McChrystal?
What do you think and how do you feel when you see a picture of that last named ghoul?
jzee
rochester, MN
Posted on 10/25/2009 at 9:38:54 AM
Kid, my feeling about Fonda can be summarized by saying that I believe she was sincere in her opposition of the war, but made some tactical errors. Who wouldn’t?
I think a lot of the stuff she was accused of have turned out to be lies, which doesn’t surprise me a bit.
I think this sez a lot,“In a 60 Minutes interview on March 31, 2005, Fonda reiterated that she had no regrets about her trip to North Vietnam in 1972, with the exception of the anti-aircraft gun photo. She stated that the incident was a “betrayal” of American forces and of the “country that gave me privilege”. Fonda said, “The image of Jane Fonda, Barbarella, Henry Fonda’s daughter ... sitting on an enemy aircraft gun was a betrayal ... the largest lapse of judgment that I can even imagine.” She later distinguished between regret over the use of her image as propaganda and pride for her anti-war activism: “There are hundreds of American delegations that had met with the POWs. Both sides were using the POWs for propaganda… It’s not something that I will apologize for.” Fonda said she had no regrets about the broadcasts she made on Radio Hanoi, something she asked the North Vietnamese to do: “Our government was lying to us and men were dying because of it, and I felt I had to do anything that I could to expose the lies and help end the war.“
At least she has the guts to admit her mistakes. Can anyone say that about Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Feith, Wolfowitz or Perle?
jzee
rochester, MN
Posted on 10/25/2009 at 9:46:39 AM
Kid, since we’re on the subject of traitors, what do you think when you see a picture of Jan Shakowsky?
You’ll have to scroll down for her pic. The cute one at the top is Sibel Edmonds. Where are our “patriots” on this issue?
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7427
jzee
rochester, MN
Posted on 10/25/2009 at 2:17:32 PM
Kid, Irish, birdog, OTT,charlie...where are ya on the question above?
What say you about the allegations reagarding possible spying for a foreign entity by a sitting congresswoman?
TheKid
Rochester, MN
Posted on 10/25/2009 at 6:47:48 PM
jzee: Using a 1-10 scale.....Fonda: -10, Kerry: 2, McCain: 8+, Calley: 1, the others who should have paid for My Lai: -5, Tillman: 9, the Tillman “cover” posse: -5, Jan Shakowsky: Do not have enough knowledge of this situation to grade.
jzee
rochester, MN
Posted on 10/25/2009 at 7:04:12 PM
Kid, we gotta get together for a beer.
Pretty good scale, but the guy who shot Tillman in a likely fratricide deserves the death penalty as do those who were in on it.
-100 for them.
By all accounts, Tillman was a real hero who likely got snuffed for speaking his mind. +20 for him.
McChrystal is worse than Fonda for his role. At least she apologized for her poor judgement.
McChrystal isn’t man enough to either own up to or apologize for the cover up. Besides that, he’s a lifer and a bureaucrat, and that alone makes him worse than Hanoi Jane. -50 for him, and I’d like the chance to tell it to him to his face.
