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Rochester
_Gadfly
Rochester, MN
Posted on 10/30/2009 at 10:13:11 AM
“I have no respect for an organization ...“ Yawn!
BillChris
topher
Olmsted County, MN
Posted on 10/30/2009 at 10:20:18 AM
“I have no respect for an organization that deliberately falsifies the information it purports to make its case. Shame on them. “
...but you accept it from the government from both sides of the political aisle?
Giving out misleading information is bad, but its as old as humanity.
len9807
mantorville, mn
Posted on 10/30/2009 at 10:20:51 AM
These things have been distorted from legislators as well. I was hopeful that we’d have a good honest debate regarding HC reform and find the best solution. I guess lying and misleading is an easier way to go.
len9807
mantorville, mn
Posted on 10/30/2009 at 10:22:40 AM
Posted on 10/30/2009 at 10:20:18 AM
“I have no respect for an organization that deliberately falsifies the information it purports to make its case. Shame on them. “
...but you accept it from the government from both sides of the political aisle?
Giving out misleading information is bad, but its as old as humanity.
--
Ironically though, this groups acts in the same manner as the crooked politicians and broken government they claim to be against.
dimpleche
eks
Rochester, MN
Posted on 10/30/2009 at 10:25:15 AM
Comment Removed.
Editor's Note:
Please refrain from name-calling.
len9807
mantorville, mn
Posted on 10/30/2009 at 10:29:41 AM
Posted on 10/30/2009 at 10:25:15 AM
Shameful indeed.
What should we expect? Honesty? Don’t hold your breath.
These are the very people who want us to believe our president is a Muslim from Kenya who attends radical Baptist ministries while plotting to destroy America with socialism.
Ask any of the tea bags how exactly Obama’s “socialist” policies are adversly affecting thier lives and they very likely will have nothing of substance. This leaves them in a world of makebelieve that serves to satisfy inner desires of dishonesty for purposes of furthering questionable agendas any reasonable person would reject.
The media’s indulgence in this fantasyland is disgraceful.
--
I tend to agree. Simultaneously they argue that Obama is trying to implement socialism while claiming “the media” which is run by US businesses is backing him. It makes me want to give them a “do over” on 4-12th grade history.
BillChris
topher
Olmsted County, MN
Posted on 10/30/2009 at 10:31:32 AM
…and they shouldn’t, but many of the Tea Party members, not leaders, (neither of which I am) just want honest open debate of this health care reform debate.
Point is, how does anyone walk away with a clear understanding of a legislative packages that go beyond a couple hundred pages? They can’t and they know most of their constituents can’t either.
We need government reform and legislative term limits before we should be doing health care reform.
Rochester
_Gadfly
Rochester, MN
Posted on 10/30/2009 at 10:35:59 AM
When I first read about “an organization that deliberately falsifies the information it purports to make its case” I thought Maegerlein was referring to the Obama administration’s claim of jobs “saved or created” which the AP yesterday said was inflated as much as tenfold. Oh the shame! http://rochestergadfly.blogspot.com/2009/10/bush-was-better-at-creating-or-saving.html
BillChris
topher
Olmsted County, MN
Posted on 10/30/2009 at 10:40:50 AM
Let’s go back to Jan 2007 when the Democrats took control for a primary example: The accelerated devaluation of the US dollar impacts our imports including gas prices.
Otherwise, since we just print money instead of balancing budgets, we aren’t recognizing the affects RIGHT NOW.
Whatever happened to pay-go? This was a big deal for Pelosi and Reid a couple of years ago.
BillChris
topher
Olmsted County, MN
Posted on 10/30/2009 at 10:44:04 AM
Comment Removed.
Editor's Note:
Please keep comments civil.
STSCSS
Cascade, MN
Posted on 10/30/2009 at 11:28:41 AM
Please read the current bill. Ask your self if Obama is so Anti private run healthcare, Why is he giving them at least 45,000,000 to adminstrate this program? This is why the HMO’s are keeping quiet and only putting up a token response. They want the conract and know if they keep thier mouths shut they will get a share.
Ron_Burgu
ndy
Rochester, MN
Posted on 10/30/2009 at 12:58:03 PM
Comment Removed.
Editor's Note:
Please keep comments civil.
TheHaikus
ter
Rochester, MN
Posted on 10/30/2009 at 5:04:36 PM
Robert Maegerlein
Union yes-man and lapdog
Big government shill;
Personal freedom?
Individual rights? No!
Socialism now!
Government knows best
Citizens are too stupid
Voters are too dumb!
Does your brain hurt you?
Obama will think for you!
Trust us, they say. WINK;
Bob will tell you that
Unions never lie. Ever!
Honest and lawful;
Tea Party members
Are just corporate stooges
Robert’s union says;
No one wants freedom
Bob says to himself. No one
Wants liberty. Right?
So Bob writes monthly
His opinion quota filled
Until next. Bye Bob!
Atilla
Rochester, Mn
Posted on 10/30/2009 at 5:12:38 PM
0bama and his democrats are after “single payer,” “socialized medicine.”
Everybody knows this. They have said it themselves many many times.
Why do they feel the need to lie about it?
Democrats make it extremely clear that their aim is single-payer, government-run health care, but they never explain why.
AND they do not have the slightest intention of participating gummint run programs themselves.
That should tell you a whole lot about the plan.
AND despite all the promises of transparency, they have done everything possible to HIDE THE TRUE CONTENTS of this bill from we the people.
This legislation was crafted in back rooms, with its contents hidden. They refused to let anyone see the bill, while our elected congress lied/lies about it.
The government option is a DECEITFUL plan to ultimately employ a single payer system like those BANKRUPTING other countries. What should anger and alarm people is that a political party would use this DEVIOUS method to implement its will over the people, knowing full well the majority of people would reject them if they were open about it.
This government expansion health plan is being sold as a means to reduce the expense of medical care. That’s a SHAM and a LIE. They are adding one TRILLION dollars of expense to cover fifteen million uninsured people and transferring that expense onto the tax system for the rest of us to pay.
Of course one trillion dollars will not be enough - what gummint plan ever came in on or under budget?
This country is bankrupt now, and this new “entitlement” will send it into the abyss. To pay off this colossal debt and monstrous burden, government must print money and pay with cheapened dollars.
What happens when people find they have been cheated by their own government, by government ITSELF through reducing the value of their dollars? This administration is intentionally doing this and does not care about the economy of America and it’s people, or they are extremely stupid and incompetent.
Obviously it does not pay to work any more. Those benefiting from this legislature are the spendthrifts and others living strictly on entitlements, those that would rather not work and have nothing to lose.
The losers will be those conscientious tax paying American citizens that have labored and saved.
Here is a list of new taxes in the bill:
http://www.atr.org/breaking-comprehensive-list-taxesbr-house-democrat-a4113
Say good bye to your health-savings accounts and flexible-savings accounts.
newameric
a
Rochester, MN
Posted on 10/30/2009 at 8:48:55 PM
The best way to control desent is to lead it. The “tea-parties” revolts are now talking more about partisan BS issues rather than what is at the core of American’s anger and despair.
The tea-parties are now being framed as anti-Obama anti-healthcare partisan rhetoric. Notice how the Tea-parties are now framing out the most pressing issues such as banker-bailouts and the continued corruption of the Federal Reserve.
We need to take the movement back away from the those who have or are trying to capture it.
We need anti-Fed rallies. Change the name to anti-Fed rallies and the Fox News crowd will quickly disappear.
BTW, for all the money we spend on war and foreign aid we could all have free health care with money to spare. Where are the calls to end all foreign aid? Aren’t we suppose to be angry at fruitless spending? Instead the people get tricked into bickering about a healthcare plan.
We give 30 million dollars away every single day to Israel! And nearly that much to Israel’s neighbors. Most of these countries already have free healthcare themselves.
At least if we are going to spend money lets spend it on our own people.
aghast
jefferson, mn
Posted on 10/30/2009 at 9:09:13 PM
“We give 30 million dollars away every single day to Israel! And nearly that much to Israel’s neighbors. Most of these countries already have free healthcare themselves.”
Great point. HGow ridiculous does it have to get before we wake up?
Cut all foreign aid, imbecilic wars and NASA for starters.
ProAmeric
an
Byron, MN
Posted on 10/31/2009 at 5:04:21 AM
It is intuitively obvious that are legislatures are totally out of control on trying to solve the healthcare problems!
A 2,000 plus page convoluted document riddled with pointers to reference other laws sounds like a government takeover to me. What elected official is able to grasp this law or be able to help refine it. Will they know what they are really working with or voting on? How in the heck will it be implemented?
What will it cost you and your family? Will it make it easier for the healthcare industry or will it add extra burden?
It costs a bunch of money people;how much more will you be paying? Will it crater our healthcare industry? If it does not work where can we go for healthcare?
I think that our senators and representative should scrap what they have and start over. The risk of implementing what they have now is to great.
They should focus on separate bills that are smaller ,understandable and that bring home real savings. Something that can be implemented now instead of waiting until 2013. If we have a healthcare crisis then why wait until 2013 to implement changes. Lets not have the government takeover our healthcare system and ruin it.
rochbusdr
iver
Rochester, MN
Posted on 10/31/2009 at 5:31:59 AM
I am really surprised at you Bob. Do you think because its titled “PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE.”
Than that MUST be true. READ the whole thing
(A) IN GENERAL.—The Commissioner shall establish a grace period whereby, for plan
years beginning after the end of the 5-year period beginning with Y1, an employment-based
health plan in operation as of the day before
the first day of Y1 must meet the same requirements as apply to a qualified health benefits
plan under section 101, including the essential benefit package requirement under section 121
This means Bob that they will make up a basic benefits Package and your plan will have to meet those requirements. If you have 80/20 policy and that is not the “benefit package requirement” Its not going to be permited or for you smart people ILLEGAL
Even as you quote page 30 it is clear that the Government will have a panel of people that they choose, deciding what will be cover under thier policy and Yours.
Hugh_Bric
e
Rocehster, MN
Posted on 10/31/2009 at 7:26:39 AM
>>> I have no respect for an organization that deliberately falsifies the information it purports to make its case. Shame on them.
This “Liar” accusation is getting a bit thin. Having a differing viewpoint is NOT a crime...something Mr. Obama and Maegerlein should recognize.
Your (mis)interpretations are tenuous at best. Even an old codger like myself can see that.
jzee
rochester, MN
Posted on 10/31/2009 at 7:59:09 AM
“I have no respect for an organization that deliberately falsifies the information it purports to make its case.”
Name one institution or organization, or one person in a position of power that doesn’t do that.
(My deepest apologies to those who have a problem with those of us with independent mindsets.)
merv
Rochester, MN
Posted on 10/31/2009 at 8:02:43 AM
“If you have 80/20 policy and that is not the ‘benefit package requirement’ Its not going to be permited or for you smart people ILLEGAL”
This would be a totally false statement if not for the use of the word ‘if’ - tossing in the word ‘if’ lets people make any sort of claim. Nobody has suggested that 80/20 plans would not meet basic requirements.
Requirements are focused on no pre-existing conditions, no capricious drops in coverage, proportional variances across different risk groups, etc. Not focused on co-pay or deductible structures.
Othelmo__
Rochester, MN
Posted on 10/31/2009 at 8:59:02 AM
Bob Maegerlein is a notorious leftist intelligentsia propagandist who sees government as the means of propagating socialism. His latest smear job in the form of a letter to the editor is proof positive of that assertion.
Mr. Maegerlein should be as ashamed as he claims to be when it comes to President Barack Obama’s daily lies concerning his health care “remedy.” Obama’s claim that he will not sign a socialized health care bill that adds “one dime” to the deficit is yet another one of his whoppers, possibly the biggest one yet. His and the Democrat Party’s socialist proposals will destroy the American economy and health care through invasive regulation and abusive taxation.
OnlyTheTr
uth
MN, MN
Posted on 10/31/2009 at 9:14:24 AM
Good to see Gadfly opining.
Good to see jzee raising questions.
Good to see that there is hope that TWO THOUSAND page congressional bills are QUESTIONED.
Bills should have a rational limit on page numbers. No law should make it that way. Just COMMON SENSE.
Imagine a school student handing in a 10-100-1000 page term paper, when the instructor asks for much less.
jzee
rochester, MN
Posted on 10/31/2009 at 9:24:19 AM
“...socialist proposals will destroy the American economy and health care through invasive regulation and abusive taxation.”
Add to that the reckless printing of money. But that’s the left wing variety of socialism.
The right wing variety is destroying America through endless borrowing and spending on vile, senseless, endless wars.
Ooops,that’s both sides...!
☭
Patriot
Mazeppa, MN
Posted on 10/31/2009 at 9:34:13 AM
“Obamacare is the Crown Jewel of socialism.”
Michelle Bachman
As always Michelle gets it right.
MnPatriot
Rochester, MN
Posted on 10/31/2009 at 9:34:59 AM
I believe the Rochester Tea Party Patriots DO work hard to ensure the material they hand out is accurate and NOT misleading. I am familiar with the handout you refer to and I reviewed the pages of HR3200 that were called out. I can certainly see the Bill being interpreted as was done by the Rochester Tea Party Patriots.
Congress purposely writes bills to in such a manner to obscure their intent and the details of what will be implemented.
The real point here is: We do NOT need Government meddling in any other aspects of our lives. We can’t afford the entitlement programs they already have implemented. This country is already broke—let’s not add to that problem.
OnlyTheTr
uth
MN, MN
Posted on 10/31/2009 at 9:44:26 AM
jzee has pure fingers slamming both parties.
I see no problem with that.
The Tea Party is not an “arm” of the Repubs. They are just tired of both parties scr*wing the citizens.
Melissa55
55
Rochester, MN
Posted on 10/31/2009 at 10:28:16 AM
1. If Bob is against the Tea Party then that means the Tea Party is great organization that is looking out for American Taxpayers.
2. The people have spoken - they don’t want this Health care change that is getting rammed down our throats and our nation cannot afford it.
3. This bill is not about getting people insurance, but about the government gaining more power and control over it’s citizens.
4. Bob - if you like this bill so much then you pay for it - but don’t make all of us who are trying to pay our own bills in this terrible economy – talk about not having any compassion!
5. I wish liberals that comment on this website would stop with the inappropriate name calling. You always talk about being against “hate speech” but you openly do it against anyone who doesn’t agree with your personal viewpoint. Talk about a double standard!
Atilla
Rochester, Mn
Posted on 10/31/2009 at 11:17:39 AM
mnPatriot, you are dead on about
“Congress purposely writing bills to in such a manner to obscure their intent and the details of what will be implemented.”
Things to note -
- So called “death panels” are in.
- Sky high taxes are in.
- Private insurance is allowed (for now) but they plan to funnel away private by taxing it to death, and therefore encouraging the gummint plan.
- Abortion will now be paid for by tax payers.
This is the democrats socialist/communist dream come true. The Democrats/gummint now own banks, auto companies- GM, Chrysler, and they plan to own (take over job of) insurance companies.
Once they own health care, the government will own 46% of private businesses.
FOURTY SIX PERCENT of the American economy will be owned by the Government.
Unfreaking believable!!!
Sound like Communism to you? Those in congress that actually care about America and it founding values, say if this passes, it will be the end of Capitalism as we once knew it.
Othelmo__
Rochester, MN
Posted on 10/31/2009 at 12:41:38 PM
“Ooops,that’s both sides...!”
jzee: fair and balanced. Kudos.
MnPatriot
Rochester, MN
Posted on 10/31/2009 at 2:35:35 PM
ProAmerican, regarding your comment, “If we have a healthcare crisis then why wait until 2013 to implement changes.”
Because they need to collect taxes for 4 YEARS prior to implementation in order to make their ‘deficit neutral’ claim for the first 10 years (which I still don’t believe it would be!). We all should be asking what will this cost us after year 10???
jzee
rochester, MN
Posted on 10/31/2009 at 2:46:36 PM
Thanks Othelmo!
I like the flag...tragically, it’s appropriate.
Atilla, good points. Have you read Marx’s 10 planks of the commie manifesto lately?
Does anyone see what Hitler was up against?
☭
irishman
Rochester, Mn
Posted on 10/31/2009 at 2:52:01 PM
Othelmo: You have vindicated and encouraged jzee by using the hammer and sickle. He has so wanted to talk comparitive symbolism to the swastika.
jzee
rochester, MN
Posted on 10/31/2009 at 3:08:05 PM
“He has so wanted to talk comparitive symbolism”
Minor point only.
Right wing socialism is a disease as bad as the left wing variety.
The bigger point is that we have are living in a communist society. Communism and left wing socialism, hve won.
All victory is fleeting at best.
Othelmo__
Rochester, MN
Posted on 10/31/2009 at 3:08:40 PM
Irish, it’s time for a “Beer Summit.” You, me and jzee.
jzee
rochester, MN
Posted on 10/31/2009 at 3:12:25 PM
Comment Removed.
Editor's Note:
Please keep comments civil.
jzee
rochester, MN
Posted on 10/31/2009 at 3:13:40 PM
Beer summit...fab idea.
I am tied up next week, but after that, I’m free again!
Kid, are you reading this?
alf_neuma
n
Rochester, Mn
Posted on 10/31/2009 at 8:27:23 PM
I would like to congratulate Maegerlein on actually reading parts of the bill. Unfortunately it isn’t the one being discussed any longer. That one is 600 pages longer than HR 3200 and substantially worse. But he is still several steps ahead of congressman Walz and the other members of the Democrat Party who are attempting to foist this socialist monstrosity upon us. The Tea Party statements were not “lies”, as previous posters have pointed out directly from the text. Even one of Bob’s examples puts the lie to his own argument:
“Pg 30) A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)”
Actually, Page 30 says “There is established a private-public advisory committee which shall be a panel of medical and other experts to be known as the Health Benefits Advisory Committee to recommend covered benefits and essential, enhanced, and premium plans.”
Bob apparently is unable to understand that these two statements are saying exactly the same thing – the government will set the rules on what is covered and what is not and how much it costs. And there is no appeals process. Try appealing your Veterans Administration coverage some time or a Medicare dispute.
We do need reforms in our health care system. This, however, is NOT it.
patriotLa
dy
wheaton, il
Posted on 10/31/2009 at 9:05:31 PM
Having attended some TEA parties, I can tell you, there is no one leader, nor one list of grievances. In general we are protesting for:
1. Fiscal responsibility
2. No “nanny state”
3. Obey the constitution.
“Obamacare” violates all three principles. As currently written it will cost a trillion dollars
($1,000,000,000,000) in ten years. (It’s purpose was to reduce health care cost, but it actually will increase it.)
It is a case of our government saying that we do not know what is best, so they will mandate with fines (and possible jail for those refusing to pay the fines) what health insurance we all must have.
There is nothing in the constitution that permits the federal government to mandate we buy anything. In fact the constitution lists what the federal government will do (like national defense, and inter-state commerce), and says items not listed are the responsibility of the states or individuals.
My parents no longer tell me what to do, or how to spend my money. Why on earth would I want my government dictating to me?
I believe I can make better decisions for myself. And I trust my fellow Americans to make his/her own decisions. I do not trust the small group in Washington DC, who’s main objective seams to be amassing power for themselves.
BTW. The list of “lies” you said the Tea Party passed out, were most likely truths. Even the CBO said private insurance will not exists for long if the bill is implemented.
merv
Rochester, MN
Posted on 10/31/2009 at 9:26:57 PM
“Even the CBO said private insurance will not exists for long if the bill is implemented.”
False. Just google from today on WSJ:
The CBO said only six million Americans would enroll in the public plan proposed in the 1,990-page health bill unveiled by House Democrats, according to findings issued late Thursday. That undercuts foes’ claims that such a plan would lead to a government takeover of the health-care system.
The CBO projects that 30 million people would get their insurance from the exchanges by 2019, but only six million of those would choose the public plan.
Atilla
Rochester, Mn
Posted on 11/1/2009 at 8:57:24 AM
Duh merv..........
The “insurance exchange” is regulated by the government.
The government will make SURE they undercut private insurance - as to encourage people NOT to purchase private insurance - so they can funnel everyone into their gummint plan.
Everybody knows this.
How can an insurance company compete with a government “exchange” in which you do not need to purchase (cheaper) insurance until you get sick.
With their federally run “insurance exchange” you do not need to purchase insurance until you get cancer, or heart disease, or diabetes etc.
So they let you buy some cheap insurance AFTER you get a brain tumor.
Who’s ultimately going to pay for all this treatment?
From .gov web site:
“..it will end discrimination that charges you more if you’re sick.”
“health insurance exchange and providing premium tax credits....will also eliminate discrimination in the health insurance market that is based on medical history, including genetic discrimination.”
Atilla
Rochester, Mn
Posted on 11/1/2009 at 9:11:56 AM
Here is the premise of their unaffordable/gumming grabbing “exchange” policy from .gov:
“Health Insurance Reform Solution:
Eliminate Discrimination for Pre-existing Conditions and Health Status.
Health insurance companies often use the presence of chronic conditions like cancer to charge higher premiums… Health insurance reform will prevent any insurance company (because it’s an exchange) from denying coverage based on your underlying health status, including genetic information, and it will end discrimination that CHARGES YOU MORE if you’re sick.”
Good grief. People buy health insurance for themselves in case of a medical emergency. You look ahead, you anticipate and PLAN for one. And yes, insurance SHOULD cost more if you smoke, have Aids, diabetes etc. Insurance SHOULD factor in risks.
This should also mean we don’t need to buy house insurance until our homes burn.
Or auto insurance until we have a car accident.
merv
Rochester, MN
Posted on 11/1/2009 at 6:31:59 PM
Duh, Attilla.... providers in health insurance exchange are private companies that meet the standards of the exchange.
You debate yourself on both sides of argument. You are against mandatory purchasing of coverage, and then you say that people will abuse system to sign up for coverage right when they need expensive procedures. Why don’t you pick a side of this argument and stick with it.
Mandatory purchasing at competitive reasonable premium/deductible/copay rates will avoid all this concern you have about people scamming the system.
Atilla
Rochester, Mn
Posted on 11/1/2009 at 6:39:37 PM
Huh?
But how about your “mandatory purchasing of coverage.”
Read this:
http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-na-mandate1-2009nov01,0,4895768.story
What happens when that “MANDATORY purchasing of coverage” is challenged in court?
It will be.
David Savage dug up this quote from the Clinton era: Requiring people to buy health insurance “would be an unprecedented form of federal action. . . . The government has never required people to buy any good or service as a condition of lawful residence in the United States.”
Foreveryo
ung
Darfur, MN
Posted on 11/3/2009 at 11:56:48 PM
Bill Christopher. You cynic. Everyone lies ergo let’s just keep telling lies and hope that some of the most egregious ones capture a core group that than sway followers to join in shouting down anyone who may REALLY BELIEVE IN SPEAKING AND HEARING TRUTH. SCARY!
Foreveryo
ung
Darfur, MN
Posted on 11/4/2009 at 12:10:43 AM
Here’s the deal. We are all (or our loved ones: Moms & Dads,) us or kids are vulnerable to any number of medical needs, whether a car accident requiring a visit to the ER or unforseen chronical issues like diabetes, heart/cholesterol, rheumitism/arthritis WHATEVER, most of us can’t deny the fact that we will all face healthcare crisis. This is costing us a fortune and wrecking our economy. Our country will rock (and compete) once we pass health care reform So can hardly wait.
